Sunday, May 27, 2007

Comic Makers Episode 34! We are back!

Episode 34

Comic Makers is back on the air! And in this extra long episode...

Becky & David review the Minx lines first tittle...



Banna Sunday from Oni Press



They debate Jessica Abels latest work La Perdida



Plus David & Becky give their thoughts on New York Comic Con, Latinos and women in comics and much more!

2 Comments:

At 3:38 AM, Blogger flameape said...

First I'd like to say- it's great that there are so many comics podcasts out there- I'm very busy working on a story for an upcoming Image book- all I do while I work is listen to podcasts about comics!

I really needed to take a break- and I find myself weary at 530am EST, pulled an all-nighter and needing to give you my 2 cents...

Dave, Your review of La Perdida, while clearly your heartfelt opinion, seems to have completely missed the point of the story, as well as the intention of the author.

La Perdida,is a tale of many things- all of which are focused through the experiences of Carla, the protagonist. Questions of class, economics, bourgeois(sic?) attitudes and the destruction of Mexican culture by the constant economic love/hate relationship with touristas.

Yes, Carla is over-privileged and a navel-gazer. Yes, her Burroughs obsessed boyfriend is an ass. As a visitor to Mexico city- you should certainly be aware of the constant influx of these types of temporary expats running amok in "The real Mexico". I would THINK that as a consumer of Indy comics like myself- you would WANT to read an honest portrayal of life in a comic book. So my response to Carla being annoying is,"So What?"

Since when in the history of modern western fiction is there a requirement to have universally sympathetic characters? From Jack London's Wolf Larsen, the controversial Madame Bovary to the The unapologetic American Psycho, we have been exposed to all kinds of unruly, difficult and challenging characters. A more mundane example would be The main characters in the films, Syriana or The Good Shepherd. Likable? Hardly. But we respond to their dilemmas, ugliness and fears nonetheless.

Because they're human- and many people experience catharsis seeing the world through their experiences. I find it hard to believe that this isn't apparent. Have you never been afraid or have made terrible regrettable decisions? I know I have been guilty of stupid, petty things. Reading La Perdida helped to shock me out of my New England Provincial Rearing- and consider how privileged I really am. Not to mention, being half Hispanic, how wildly out of touch I am with 1/2 of my culture.

Why are you so wrapped up in your superficial assessment of the main character's negative stereotypical traits that you can't possibly engage with the overall narrative; especially since It's a very real portrayal of tourista behavior? Isn't it a good thing that we see this kid of "warts and all" portrayal in our comic fiction? Or is The Indy comic strictly the medium for books like, "Banana Sunday", "The PlainJanes" or non-trad superhero fare like "Powers"? Persepolis, Maus and the books of Julie Doucet and

I think the part that really makes me a bit dissapointed in your review is that neither you nor Becky mentioned that La Perdida was based on Jessica Abel's own experiences living for a long period of time in Mexico. It's based on her own observations- her own experiences! So I think we need to honor her side of the story and respect her way of making us aware of the problems in A simple bit of Google research would have brought this to your attention and might have better informed your review.

I really hope you give Abel's book another chance.

Last- the comments about comic readership- although I agree with the heartwarming notions of kids clamoring around the comic book rack... it does not play out in the statistical data and anecdotal evidence compiled by comic book retailers, distributors and publishers.

The industry, since the 80's (some say later or earlier...) has been, according to the industry, losing young readers (under 17) steadily. and that would be sensible as their overwhelming expenditures in the area of trading card games, video games and even sneakers are taking from the comic store till.

There are others who will quite adamantly point out that the print comics industry is increasingly becoming a boutique business for baby boomers through the "Generation Y" older kids and adults. Loyal? Absolutely. Does this translate to under 18? Apparently not. That isn't to say that kids don't read them at all- but according to one DC study- The numbers might be lower than 30%. In fact, It's entirely more likely that a youngster find out about the Amazing Spider man or Scarlet Witch playing video games or playing withHeroclix or some card game or WATCHING a Fantastic Four film. These are simple realities of the marketplace, nothing more.

Fortunately,the games, movies, etc. have to have the characters to tie in with in the first place. As long as we oldsters and a few youngsters keep buying comics,WB, Marvel and so on will be publishing comics. But to make money from kids they'll be licensing action figures, Spidey 3 cell phones and Xmen PlayStation games. It has no bearing on the small fry Indy publishers, but the mainstream and Indy mainstream will be no doubt kept alive in a symbiotic relationship with the bigger moneymaking divisions of their corporate families.

PS- Becky, loved the inking seminar story. sounded awful. it's basically the case with any arts that only 3 things will help- classes/full on school, individual mentoring (if yer lucky) and sweat. mostly the last one- like 99%. Good luck with that. It's worth the struggle, from someone who is 40 and finally making stuff I like and have been published a bit.

Thanks for getting my blood going- and forcing me to take a break from my deadline and communicating, even if i am a snarky old bastard.

ciao!

 
At 4:14 AM, Blogger flameape said...

First I'd like to say- it's great that there are so many comics podcasts out there- I'm very busy working on a story for an upcoming Image book- all I do while I work is listen to podcasts about comics!

I really needed to take a break- and I find myself weary having pulled an all-nighter and needing to give you my 2 cents worth of opinion and rebuttal...

Dave, Your review of La Perdida, while clearly your heartfelt opinion, seems to have completely missed the point of the story, as well as the intention of the author.

La Perdida,is a tale of many things- all of which are focused through the experiences of Carla, the protagonist. Questions of class, economics, bourgeois attitudes and the destruction of Mexican culture by the constant economic love/hate relationship with touristas, among other interpersonal dramas of Carla's, etc...

Yes, Carla is over-privileged and a navel-gazer. Yes, her Burroughs obsessed boyfriend is an ass. As a visitor to Mexico- you should certainly be aware of the constant influx of these out of touch, often self-indulgent expats running amok in "The (so-called) real Mexico". I would THINK that as a consumer of Indy comics like myself- you would WANT to read an honest portrayal of life in a comic book. So my response to Carla being annoying is,"So What?"

Since when in the history of modern western fiction is there a requirement to have universally sympathetic characters? From Jack London's Wolf Larsen, the controversial Madame Bovary to the The unapologetic American Psycho, we have been exposed to all kinds of unruly, difficult and challenging characters. A more mundane example would be The main characters in the films, Syriana or The Good Shepherd. Likable? Hardly. But we respond to their dilemmas, ugliness and fears nonetheless.

Because they're human- and many people experience catharsis seeing the world through their experiences. I find it hard to believe that this isn't apparent. Have you never been afraid or have made terrible regrettable decisions? I know I have been guilty of stupid, petty things. Reading La Perdida helped to shock me out of my New England Provincial post-childhood upbringing- and consider how privileged I really am. Not to mention, being half Hispanic, how wildly out of touch I am with 1/2 of my culture.

Why are you so wrapped up in your superficial assessment of the main character's negative stereotypical traits that you can't possibly engage with the overall narrative; especially since It's a very real portrayal of tourista behavior? Isn't it a good thing that we see this kid of "warts and all" portrayal in our comic fiction? Or is The Indy comic strictly the medium for books like, "Banana Sunday", "The PlainJanes" or non-trad superhero fare like "Powers"?

Life is not a simple black and white situation- so why must her fiction be any less ambiguous? Why must the protagonist be "likable"? Carla is,like alot of us, like the type of people she represents- capable of insight and ignorance- making her very complicated, annoying and human. Persepolis, Maus, Will Eisner's NEW YORK and Julie Doucet's Dirty Plotte proved that the ugly, confusing, Banal and "real" sides of our lives, frankly presented, were also valid forms of expression in comics.

I think the other part that dissapointed me about the review is that neither you nor Becky mentioned that La Perdida was based on Jessica Abel's own experiences living for a long period of time in Mexico. It's based on her own observations- her own experiences! I think we need to honor her telling of her story and respect her for making us aware of the problems as she saw them! I believe this at least gives creedence to a re-examination of the series on your part, Dave. A quick bit of Google research would have brought this to your attention and might have better informed your review.

I really hope you give Abel's book another chance.

Last- the comments about comic readership- although I agree with the heartwarming notions of kids clamoring around the comic book rack... it does not play out in the statistical data and anecdotal evidence compiled by comic book retailers, distributors and publishers.

The industry, since the 80's (some say later or earlier...) has been, according to the industry, losing young readers (under 17) steadily. and that would be sensible as their overwhelming expenditures in the area of trading card games, video games and even sneakers are taking from the comic store till.

There are others who will quite adamantly point out that the print comics industry is increasingly becoming a boutique business for baby boomers through the so-called "Generation X" and i suppose "generation Y". older kids and adults- Loyal? Absolutely. Does this translate to under 18? Apparently not. That isn't to say that kids don't read them at all- but according to one DC study- The numbers might be lower than 30%. In fact, It's entirely more likely that a youngster find out about the Amazing Spider man or Scarlet Witch playing video games or playing withHeroclix or some card game or WATCHING a Fantastic Four film. These are simple realities of the marketplace, nothing more.

Fortunately,the games, movies, etc. have to have the characters to tie in with in the first place. As long as we oldsters and a few youngsters keep buying comics,WB, Marvel and so on will be publishing comics. But to make money from kids they'll be licensing action figures, Spidey 3 cell phones and Xmen PlayStation games. It has no bearing on the small fry Indy publishers, but the mainstream and Indy mainstream will be no doubt kept alive in a symbiotic relationship with the bigger moneymaking divisions of their corporate families.

PS- Becky, loved the inking seminar story. sounded awful. it's basically the case with any arts that only 3 things will help- classes/full on school, individual mentoring (if yer lucky) and sweat. mostly the last one- like 99%. Good luck with that. It's worth the struggle, from someone who is 40 and finally making stuff I like and have been published a bit.

Thanks for getting my blood going- and forcing me to take a break from my deadline and communicating, even if i am a snarky old bastard.

ciao!

 

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